SSP vs Paca[rana]

2disbetter 2018-06-06 14:39:53 UTC #21

Indeed, as well as a 128 velocity values.

bert 2018-06-07 11:59:40 UTC #22

What I’ve also learned, is that the SSP [so far!] does not have the tools to provide me with non-linear compositional & live-improvisational methods.

It would help if you would be more clear on what you mean with “non-linear compositional and live improvisational methods”.

In order to understand what I’m looking for, then perhaps it’s best to look at what Morton Subotnick did with his Ghost Tapes to perform his earlier works, back in the 70/80-ties.

I doubt that just listening to that piece will reveal the full process to arrive at the result, from a technical perspective.

I need a large system to create just one set of sounds, and I’d need several of different sets (layers) at any given time, at any given point. A bit like an orchestra.

You can build multiple “sounds” = “sub patches” within the patching grid of the SSP. They will all run in parallel and will respond to whatever control signals you send to them either via the audio/CV jacks or via USB MIDI. If you do run out of DSP power, you can run multiple SSPs in parallel in your rack.

bert 2018-06-07 12:01:17 UTC #23

Could you please elaborate a bit more on what exactly channels are in the SPP ?

You have 16 inputs and 8 outpus on the SSP. You can route the input channels any way you want to any of the modules you put in the SSP’s internal patching grid. You can also route any of the signals from the patching grid to any of the outputs.

bert 2018-06-07 12:02:53 UTC #24

I’d still like to see/hear a proper demo of it, so I hope Bert can free up an hour or so to demonstrate it to me. Bert ?

Sure, we can set this up end of june, we’re in the middle of assembling and sending out SSPs at the moment. Send me a personal message here on the forum and we’ll pick a day and time.

gd2 2018-06-07 12:38:16 UTC #25

Not running from left to right in a given (& often fixed) tempo, as in DAWs, sequencers…
Not like in a typical classical or popular music, going linearly from intro to chorus to break to…
Imagine you have several “blocks” of ready made music, and several layers of those; or you could see that as a “patch”. The composer must be able to recall these blocks at any given time, and interact with them (that’s the live improv part), and the layers (of blocks/patches) must be able to be run independently of each other (e.g. block 1 on top of block 2, then block 1 again on top of blocks 4 & 7).
It’s a bit similar to what can be done with a mixing console loaded with a whole bunch of tracks (musical parts, or combo’s), where the engineer can fade in/out parts, mute & solo them, etc… but he can pick any place in time of any track.

Ghost Tapes were Mort’s method of putting control voltages on a multitrack tape in his studio, and then playing them back again (through envelope followers) to control his synths et all in a live setting. He could change the playback speed, track “volume”, etc on the fly… So he could always perform something very similar to what he previously did in the studio, but varying for each performance.
Nowadays he uses Live to invoke both CV’s and audio.

bert 2018-06-07 19:01:01 UTC #26

Imagine you have several “blocks” of ready made music, and several layers of those; or you could see that as a “patch”. The composer must be able to recall these blocks at any given time, and interact with them (that’s the live improv part), and the layers (of blocks/patches) must be able to be run independently of each other (e.g. block 1 on top of block 2, then block 1 again on top of blocks 4 & 7).

It sounds like you want to loop samples and layer them, and want control over what samples are playing back as well as the amplitude or volume of the samples.

You could use the sampler module in the SSP which lets you layer samples. You can have as many sampler modules as you want. The sampler module has a gate input to trigger it and you should also be able to amplitude module it with whatever signal you want (internal or external).

Ghost Tapes were Mort’s method of putting control voltages on a multitrack tape in his studio, and then playing them back again (through envelope followers) to control his synths et all in a live setting. He could change the playback speed, track “volume”, etc on the fly… So he could always perform something very similar to what he previously did in the studio, but varying for each performance.
Nowadays he uses Live to invoke both CV’s and audio.

You can record any signal as a sample on the SSP so you could do the same thing. Once you’ve recorded the samples you can play them back as I described above.

gd2 2018-06-08 10:23:26 UTC #27

Yes and no. Replace “samples” with “patch” or “modular”, and we’re there.
Though nothing would keep me of using additional samples at the same time, I suppose.

Being able to record CV’s is a very cool feature. And then manipulating them… very nice.

Thanks for all the info & help; it’s much appreciated.

cheers,
_g

bert 2018-06-08 20:10:20 UTC #28

Yes and no. Replace “samples” with “patch” or “modular”, and we’re there.
Though nothing would keep me of using additional samples at the same time, I suppose.

OK, so what you mean is that you want to build multiple patches (each with a different sound controllable live) within one big patch. You can already do this in the patcher grid of the SSP. The entire patch is stored as a preset which you can recall. At the moment you cannot run multiple presets in parallel and you cannot store subparts of the patch/preset seperately for re-use later. The ability to have multiple presets in parallel to create a sort of higher level multitimbrality has been discussed already with @tiger001 and is something we’ll consider/look at in the future when we’ve delivered all the modules planned / voted on for the kickstarter.

Accumulate 2018-06-22 18:21:22 UTC #29

I’ve not read every post I’m detail but I think most people are missing the point in my opinion. Sure the SSP has more processing power as it’s newer but with Kyma you are purchasing some of the best DSP modules in the sound synthesis world. You’re buying well over 30 years of research and continued development to make mixing these modules together in whatever way you see fit and adding control and interaction ranging from simple to hugely hugely deep. Sure, SSP is open source and you can roll your own (as you can in Kyma if you are talented enough) but until it has the sheer range of high end DSP, audio, spectral and midi manipulation abilities I don’t really think you can compare them. The Kyma will far surpass what the SSP can output. That’s not to say the SSP can’t be developed and don’t get me wrong, the reason I’m here is that the SSP looks fantastic and I’m considering one.

Btw, for those interested; you can easily use an expert sleepers ES8 to add Cv/Gate to Kyma. Just for those wondering.

2disbetter 2018-06-23 21:36:49 UTC #30

I think people get this point. I’m certainly not trying to knock down 30 years of anything. My sole wish was that people understand that DSP is at the core of what we are talking about here and that DSP is dependent on the hardware it is run on. By establishing that the SSP is superior from a hardware standpoint, and then establishing that the platform is open and extendable, I’m trying to ensure people realize the soil (so to speak) is fertile and the eventual harvest will be plentiful.

As a tester, I can see that there is already so much here with the potential for SOO much more. I am in the process of moving, but I am working on a video that will work through the basic workflow. I think when this can be seen it will help people to understand just how extendable the SSP really is, and how it can be used for just about anything.

Accumulate 2018-06-24 08:13:09 UTC #31

Sure, I take your point. I guess it comes down to how you measure/define/quantify power. Personally I think measuring something by potential isn’t the right way but it’s semantics really. I’m not trying to knock the SSP either; like I said I’m very interested and I hope it does reach that potential you say. In terms of out the box/raw synthesis/sound processing power in June 2018 though I still don’t see anything that competes with Kyma (regardless of the fact it’s DSP chips are slightly older now).
I look forward to seeing more from SSP It does look very very nice!

jason 2018-06-24 15:21:21 UTC #32

It’s a shame that at the cost if these instruments it isn’t really practical to collect them all, but I’m glad there are a variety of tools for DSP in the world (so much can be done with Supercollider on any old computer, for example) that we can look to for inspiration as the possibilities expand in every direction. I’m looking forward to many years of music making to come.

BrettSaberhagen 2018-06-24 23:24:06 UTC #33

I’m very fortunate to be able to ‘collect them all’ and my Percussa will peacefully coexist next to my Pacarana along with a large collection of synths and effects units that I utilize in my sound design work.
I know that there will be things that ultimately will be better created on the Percussa versus the other instruments in my creative arsenal and vice versa but that’s why ice cream comes in more than one flavor. Pitting one unit against the other is pointless IMHO. One thing that the Percussa will have over my Pacarana would be being powered on and working with all of my Eurorack modules without turning on my computer and all the external units necessary to run the KYMA software.

Martin 2018-06-25 17:19:14 UTC #34

Hear Hear Brett, totally agree.
What is remarkable, is how much effort has been made to answer questions and respond to slight criticism’s in comparing product with others. This shows what commitment this company has for existing and potential customers and if this commitment continues, this product, especially as you can upgrade is going to be something special in future. This is early days, its like an Xbox, so much power under the hood and only limited to the programming, at no time have I been under the illusion that this is it, its all I am getting for my money, I saw the potential and wanted in. I know that this will grow and the company appears drive by community, so really it is also up to us guys too, isn’t this why a vote was cast for future software. I believe software will come after delivering of promise to the kickstarters and this promise is going to be delivered. Keep up the good work guys.

SSPix 2018-07-03 00:03:03 UTC #35

Agreed, happy the hardware was delivered with it’s basic non users aproof starter software
It shows it so far doesn’t match standards of modularist, like unacceptable jumps of endless dials from max to min …
I still hope the software optimizing will listen closely to the made comments and wishes of the needs of the users

bert 2018-07-03 19:02:29 UTC #36

You can turn this off in the global menu, third page, setting “RtMM”. It is a matter of taste, whether you like wrap-around settings or not.

bert 2018-07-03 19:04:52 UTC #37

I replied to your statement about “standards” in the other thread you posted here - Software so far fails to match needs of standards of modularist

SSPix 2018-07-04 10:04:20 UTC #38

I m sorry I brought in a critical negative tone, shure due to my frustration that to me! in the grid the In and Out list and how to handle switch ons or not is really hard to manage.
I tried to make a simple preset wth stepseq and sampler with some cv / gate in and for the stepseq cv and gate out and of course audio out - - with several approaches I wasn’t able. Simply dummie

BrettSaberhagen 2018-07-04 13:52:19 UTC #39

Is the Expert Sleepers ES-8 supported by Symbolic Sound?
Will the Pacarana recognize it as an audio interface over USB?
This would be very interesting if it were possible to do so…
What about their new FH-2 module?

Accumulate 2018-07-09 17:20:41 UTC #40

Apologies, I’m using Es8 via ADAT to my MOTU soundcard. Super easy set up. I don’t think the ES8 is supported directly on the Pacarana but I may drop them a line to see if they could add.