Ins and Outs

well in a few days you’ll be able to test yourself
we await your report eagerly

My bet is, on Mac you can actually do it.

On Mac, you can sum multiple audio devices into one aggregate device.
I use a RME interface and the SSP together.

When I open my DAW and choose the aggregate device, it tells me I have 42 inputs. 24 Ins from the SSP, and 18 Ins from the RME. So I dont see why the ES-9 and the SSP shouldnt work together in the form of an aggregate device.

On windows, I tried many, many times to achieve this, but the only driver I know of thats capable of doing aggregate devices is Asio4All, and it is an absolute pain in the a**

That is a very good idea to make an aggregate device (having that ability is one of the reasons I got a Mac, because Windows sucks for that) :slight_smile:

I was wondering if anyone had hooked an ES9 (or ES8) into the SSP and had access to more I/O, not that I think I will need it, more of an experiment really :slight_smile:

So I did a thing, and sold my ES9 before my SSP has even arrived. I assumed it wouldn’t work with the SSP natively, and I needed the funds for another purchase. I also discovered that the SSP could fill the role of the ES9 when needed (communication with VCV) which is rare, so gave it a new home.

helas, now we’ll never know (!)

usb audio interfaces do work with the SSP, I tested this with my Zoom H5 (I sold my ES8)

the ‘issue’ (as ive mentioned before) is synthor is only interested in the the two audio devices we usually have the ‘built in’ and the usb device( not host!) ( aka ak4458ak5558aud, usb_gadget).

I believe I could create a VST, e.g. a USBIN and USBOUT , that would connect to a usb (hosted) audio interface, and would then expose this as normal vst io… if the usb audio interface supported dc coupled output (like the ES8/9) then we’d have audio and cv - this would be pretty effective.

is this the best option? well its an option that could work without any hardware changes.
but es8/9 are reasonably expensive, whereas if we could get an I2C expander working, this would likely be a bit cheaper… and probably more efficient (less latency).

of course the nice thing about using an es8/9, is you can of course choose to use it independent of the SSP… so it has some extra versatility.

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i was always under the impression (by tech/sales talk) that it would work out of the box with any plug&play (DC coupled) USB interface - without an extra (VST) layer

really? perhap a misunderstanding…

as I said, yes, my H5 is correctly identified and available as an alsa soundcard ‘out of the box’.

but in my test, synthor did not associate its IO to the INP /OUT channels.
even , restarting synthor did not change this.
(this was what I expected , and mentioned in this post even before trying.)

I should say, actually I would not want this automatic mapping anyway.
the issue is, if you map this audio interface to the same INP channels as the built-in adc, you have not expanded the number of channels, you have just overlaid them.

actually, I wish the the existing USB mode, did NOT do this, instead Id prefer we had a separate IN/OUT module where we could assign the these USB channels.
yes, I see its kind of convienient in some situations to have this ‘automatic’ mapping, but often id prefer to have the physical and usb i/o completely separated. (honestly, this merging could be easily handled in a patch)

anyway, its an interesting area to investigate…
I should say, whilst theoretically this feels simple to do, there may well be some nasty complications in practice e.g. the 128 audio buffer may not be sufficient for many usb audio interfaces, also theres fun and games around sync’ing clocks… that would need to be investigated.

i don’t mind a duplicate of the first 16 INS and 8 OUTS (although it would be nice if you could assign/config them from the SSP)
if we can assign/config the rest of the channels on the USB interface itself (like, OUT 1 on the USB interface corresponds to IN 9 from USB)
i thought this was exactly possible on the ES-9 software (to be flashed for standalone operation)
how many USB audio interfaces you know of have +8 INS and +16 OUTS (dc coupled?) anyhow ?

My bad wavejockey, I needed the funds to replace the money I used to buy the SSP, I was trying to wait out the delivery but a sale went through and I needed to ship it out. Having I2C expander(s) would be really awesome, and would put the SSP on track to severely outpace ES8/ES9 in terms of USB I/O, especially if multiple expanders could be linked together (not that I need that much I/O but it would be nice to have the option) :slight_smile:

One thing I am curious of (don’t want to start a whole other thread, since this is I/O related), is if the left USB port will ever be open to MIDI input, as I’d like to use USB from my sequencer and a MIDI Fighter to control parameters :slight_smile:

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i’m relaying my MIDI sequencer information to a novation SL and then to the SSP

Ah this is a great idea! You have just sparked some ideas in my head… and made me thankful I have a few pieces of equipment in the process :slight_smile: I’m thinking MIDI Fighter and Vector Sequencer hooked up via USB to my MioXL then out of MioXL to SSP. I wonder if I can use a double ended USB-A cable to hook them together, as I’d like to go into SSP’s middle USB port, and keep the right most port open for use as a cv/audio interface with my computer. I believe this should allow me to use any MIDI device on my MIDI network with the SSP. Going to have to give it a try when I get a moment, Thank You!! :slight_smile:

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I’m also interested in adding more
Ins and outs…

Currently I use the droid which is not ideal
As I have to send midi from the ssp to the droid and convert it again in The droid to cv… it works with obvious resolution reduction so with its limits… and it cost 650 euro for 8 ins and 8 outs plus 4 gates…

I don’t know how much it would cost us to build ?
But surely would increase the range of the SSP

wouldn’t the best option (now) not be the (expandable) expert sleepers ES-9?

approx the same price

Grove audio is a lot cheaper but does only do 8 CV + 8 gate out from MIDI (usb or DIN)
https://www.groveaudio.com/page84.html

SDS digital Sequarallel also does 6 ch MIDI conversion (CV/GATE/VELO) and has MIDI 2.0 implementation but only interfaces through 3.5" jack

ES9/ES8 etc, is really overkill for this application… and the usb support in SYNTHOR is to act as a USB audio device, not an audio host… so, this will not ‘just work’
basically SYNTHOR (or a 3rd party module) would have to be adapted to allow for usb audio devices
(this is true of any other usb audio device)

midi → cv will, of course, work, but there is no MIDI OUT factory module, so you would have to use my MTOT module.
one issue with MIDI is 7bit midi is pretty low resolution… I could add 14 bit support, however, you will find few midi → cv modules supporting 14 bit.
I think you’d want USB midi, if you want to have higher rate midi.
BUT - main point, is with MTOT, you have all you need to start using this today!

future directions, that I’ll consider when I have time…

a) I2C codec
the new firmware now has I2C support. so as mentioned above, I’d like to see if I can wire up a codec for additional outputs.
of course, this would required additional hardware and software.
also, its not ‘risk free’ i.e. users could blow up their SSP if not done correctly… so I wont release any details on this until I’ve proven the approach.

my idea is to try to prototype (hardware/software) this concept, if its proven perhaps I can find someone to partner with to do the hardware side properly… the big issue here though, is we have so few users - its a tiny run - so no idea how to make this work in any economic sense.

b) USB device support.
I may take a look at this, possibly via SYNTHOR, but more likely as a 3rd party module.
not sure though, it could be a reasonable amount of work, and Im not sure I (personally) have a need for it… and usually Im pretty happy to go via computer, or even my iPhone … e.g. SSP <-> Mac <-> my 16x32 audio interface.


I do have quite a few other ideas for approaches we could take, but I need to sit down an think these thru a bit, and also check out whats available.

the modules i mentioned are all +14bit AD/DA convertors

and we have no 14 bit midi support :wink:

I could go usb from ssp into droid, but would I not still
Get 7 bit out via the MTOT ? Droid supports full resolution usb data stream…

yes, as I said, MTOT (my module) is the only midi output currently for the SSP.
and, Ive not put in 14 bit CC support at the moment… so many other things to do :wink:

also even with 14 bit, midi is far from ideal… its not just resolution, its pretty inefficient for sending a lot of data very infrequently… due to the way its encoded. a single 14 bit value - takes 8 data bytes over USB.
(the SSP had to send over USB without hardware modifications)
it’s got a certain amount of latency, and we cannot get it sample accurate.

don’t get me wrong for a bit of output modulation its fine…
and honestly, I use midi a lot with modular as its so convenient, but its not substitute for CV!

usb audio interfaces … the main issue here, is few have a DC coupled audio interface.
so whilst it’ll be fine for additional audio outputs, doesn’t help for additional CV outputs.
which I think is where I2C fits in nicely… if I can get it to work.

as I said, Ive actually another idea that its quite ambitious, but could potentially be used other by the Eurorack modules (as well as having SSP support)

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Was mentioned earlier, but worth asking: Would the latency differences between built-in i/o and an external i/o device be something that could be easily overcome?