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Initially i wanted a ER-301 but got the SSP instead...Anyone have both?

#13

I agree that the posting community on the forum is larger than just you, but when it comes to contributors you’re really all that exists.

In fact, you’d be hard-pressed to find a thread on here that if it weren’t for your lengthy and thoughtful replies ever would have evolved into the conversations they did or kept the users engaged. I could make a strong argument that had it not been for your involvement, there would be no real community, and this forum would be dead.

Additionally, and more contextually, you are essentially the sole developer for this module, and really the only reason I come back to this forum is to see what you’ve been working on.

In short, thank you. The SSP is an absolute freight train of a module, but you’re the conductor and the rest of us really appreciate it!

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#14

@thetechnobear @DSPaddict @Handsonicsuki Thank you all for your wonderful responses…I agree with @DSPaddict …Thetechnobear’s responses to some of my inquiries weren’t just a simple READ THE MANUAL or CHECK VIDS ONLINE…He took the time to explain in detail…I LOVE THAT…You are the Conductor on this Freight Train for sure…i am starting to feel very fortunate on the SSP because of it’s power…i’m not sure who said it, i would have to go back up and read but one of you said that the SSP has too much power so it may sort of confusing as to what to accomplish. My goal at this point is go create Glitch Drone Textures and create Drone music for my Ytube Channel. I’m sure you all heard my 1st Vid. I wanna continue to do music like that and expand on Loops and Drum Glitches…I love this forum…

#15

ER-301 can do many things with its CPU power. Limitation of CPU power depends on how to use ER-301.
I think ER-301 and SSP have different areas of home grounds. So, I separated the role of function at those two modules.
SSP is for a flexible sampler controlled by my MIDI pad and ER-301 is for a real-time sampling player and looper.
Real-time sampling looper is very CPU-intensive, so I could not build the stereo multitrack looper module that I wanted on ER-301.
I’ve given up on buliding looper environment with eurorack for now, and moved to standalone hardware.
I’m still looking for good sampling looper module for me, but I can’t find it at this point.
Anyway, ER-301 is a nice module.

@DSPaddict I saw several people are developping midi to I2c module in the ER-301 forum in the past.
Have some of those modules been launched already?

#16

I recommend you check out the Poly Effects Hector module (another DSP) the Loopler on it is quite good.

The Lines community is on top of it. I haven’t done this myself but i think they worked out a way to use the Disting EX to translate it

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#17

Actually, I bought Hector for looper.
That looper looks good for a typical live looping but the function was not matched with my very personal and specific purpose and I sold it.

MIDI to I2C via disting ex?
Wow! it’s interesting!! I’ll dig the lines community.

#18

It’s funny you mention the Poly hector. I was considering this but because of the HP size… I would only have gotten the Hector if I bought the 301 which both the 301 & Hector would probably end up being the same size HP as the SSP give or take an HP or two . Both of those two together would be an awesome digital modular setup… I’m sorry you had to sell yours because your expectations wasn’t met. I had the Poly Beebo & it was very sluggish and I didn’t like it that much…CPU reached its max very fast…I assumed that could have been an alternative to the 301 LOL,well, to a certain degree I mean.

I’m very fortunate even to have the SSP… this thread is interesting because the more I hear about the 301 and the Poly Hector, I feel as though I made the right choice with the SSP because out of all these, it seems like the SSP comes out the winner anyways…

#19

the problem is although they are both ‘sound computers’ they are not really comparable.
(though of course, its inevitable they will be compared !)

there are technically completely different beasts…beyond the (massive) IO, display differences,
at their heart …

ER301 uses a AM3352-SOM , a single core 1ghz A8 processor (inc vfpv3 fpu) , 512mb ram.
SSP uses SOM with a 1.8ghz quad core A17 (inc vfpv4 fpu), 2 GB ram.

so, frankly, technically, its not even a contest :wink:

BUT a eurorack module is HARDWARE + SOFTWARE !

(theres also a discussion on the OS/firmware they sit on, but thats a whole other topic)

no-one cares what processor is in a Mutable Instruments Plaits/Clouds… it simply does its function.
this is the case here too.

the ER301 makes exceptional use of its hardware with a great set of modules/ui… but that will always be its limit.
the SSP doesn’t have the quantity of modules currently, but it has a lot of potential.

lets also put this in perspective…
the ER301 is powerful compared to other eurorack modules.
and, I suspect if it’s just doing a single function, for most, it’s got enough oomph.

I suspect the advantage of the SSP is when you want it to do many things at once, at that point, the more powerful multi core architecture is going to be a win.

btw: I should point out that sample playback is not (usually) a particularly cpu intensive operation.

overall, both great modules - that have a similar focus, but are taking very different approaches in both hardware and software.

anyway… back to compiling things for the SSP :wink:

#20

i have a challenge that maybe you can help…All of you in this thread…This will help me determine the Justification on having a $2,000 module and if i can use the Items in here to justify spending that amount of money. Even tho i didn’t spend actual $2k…lol…
ok here’s one of the goals i want to achieve… this is going to be a long one so you professionals i need your thinking caps on. To some of you it may be a simple question. i will try and go easy but here’s my theory on if i should keep.

if i can get a subtractive full blown synth out of the SSP that would be great. Let me explain.
Sequencer/Gate > VCO > Env > Filter > Mixer > VCA/Output to my physical mixer/speaker…

I want to able to create a full blown synth where i have the Decay & sustain and release functioning as a regular desktop synth. I want to sharpen the sound with the decay like the Moog Mother 32 and i want that nice Sustaining Release. I also want the Filter to sound like a normal fitter. Cutoff, Res, to the point if i turn the res all the way up, i get feedback…like a normal filter module…

when i connect everything & start tweaking the parameters, i want this to replicate a subtractive synth. So far i was not able to do that and i have not seen nothing remotely close on Ytube so far. i connected a Filter and it was not that responsive. The Function Generator was ok. i did hear the Decay sharpen things up but the filter was not really effective…No external gear being used…i want to use everything in the SSP. Sequencer sequencing the WTO or Sampler, then feeding into a filter with a Gate in on the filter so i can manually adjust parameters…What confuses me is i see soo many options…i see Filter In but i also see Res, Cut, etc, so when i connect my WTO or Sam to filter, i’m just choosing Filter in right? why all the other parameters…i’m not trying to modify the Filter cutoff…i just want to create a basic subtractive synth ( NO ) LFO at this time…i want to be able to manually adjust knobs like on a Moog Mother 32 and get similar results as any desktop synth. Why am i not able to do that. if i can do at least that,then thats $1300 worth of Physical Eurorack modules and at least i can say im putting half the money to use in a Digital way on the SSP

Decent Physical modules.

  1. Seq $200 - $250 ( 10 HP )
  2. VCO $150 - $250 (14 HP )
  3. Filter $100 - $300 (10 HP )
  4. Function Generator $300 ( 8 HP )
  5. Mixer $225 ( 8 HP )
  6. VCA $100 ( 4 HP )

we have before you gentlemen about $1500 worth of physical modules to create a basic subtractive analog synth. I can do wonders with this setup in a 60HP Pod. All sorts of modulation “without” the use of a LFO.
So can i duplicate this same setup in the SSP? i see the ingredients are there but last night i struggled without getting the results…
when i start tweaking Filter while sequencer is playing. i cannot get that fading into a sharp Decay,bummmm bummm bumm bum bm b b b b ---- to a long sustain release Bummmmmmmmmm Bummmmmmm…
sorry for the long post…but this is the moment of truth…i don’t want to hear a yes it can do it…you may want to start a new patch for those of you who still have a SSP and see if you can answer this question through action…i never seen it done and my success was a failure…maybe i’m doing something wrong? with order? in which i patch? hmmm not sure…i don’t think so tho…
Here’s how i have it.
Seq going into sampler then to Filter & then out put… I only use channel 1…only need 1 sound to achieve this goal.
i also have seq using gate into Env & Env into Filter in only and then filter to output so multiple modules are sharing…but this should get all modules working…am i doing something wrong?
Today is Friday,this will really brighten up my weekend if i can get at least that accomplished. My main concerns are the Filter and Env. The seq and sampler and output are pretty standards…it’s the utility modules that dont seem to work like a very very basic physical eurorack module.

#21

what have you got so far?
Im not quite sure what you think is missing?

the one thing that stands out in your statement above is :
“I also want the Filter to sound like a normal fitter. Cutoff, Res, to the point if i turn the res all the way up, i get feedback…like a normal filter module…”
(my emphasis)

this is simply not true… SOME filter designs self oscillate, others do NOT… and this is true in both analog and digital worlds.

Im in the middle of something at the moment, but its quite possible the SVF filter design (*) used on the SSP is simply not self oscillating… (its not a Moog ladder filter ;))

(*) Id need to turn on my SSP to check this, but I don’t remember it self oscillating when I patched it before … but I can’t remember when I last tried :wink:

#22

ok, a quick test…
yeah SVF is not self oscillating, and whist it does resonate at (very) high RES settings its not a particularly resonating filter design.

its gets a bit squelchy at really high values (0.9-1.0) , so if you are using a filter envelope you’ll want to bias it to hit that range when it fires…
e.g. offset =0.8, then scale by 0.1 … so its 0.8 to 1.0 … check on scope)

Id need to play with to see how that sounds ( which I don’t have time for right now) but that might give you something, but it’s not going to be extreme.

you might also be able to try multiple SVF in series… Ive not looked at its slope, but it may be 12db (),
if you put SVFs in series, each one will double the slope… and so might give you a but more resonance.
it’s quite common for squelchy filters to be 24 or even 48db.
() Im not sure what slope is on SVF, not measured it.

and again, Id need to play with it to see how it sounds.

(my guess is you’re thinking of Moog filters, which are pretty commonly used for synths, but those are a bit different in design to an SVF)(

#23

Thanks for your reply. Also I guess the best way to demonstrate is to use a video on YouTube. If you get a chance please click on the link above. I believe this is an example of a SVF… I’m not sure of the specifications on how high it reaches or how low it goes as far as the numbers as you described. So with that in mind can I at least achieve some of these results on the SSP as in the video link above?.. I’m not looking for it to go super high into resonant I just want to be able to sharpen the sound and give it that you know bubbly sharp sound like a Moog synthesizer or any synthesizer for that matter even the Behringer crave can do that it’s just a normal filter it doesn’t have to go super high or super low it just I just needed to sound like a basic subtractive filter and when I adjust the parameters I hear very little I do hear something but it’s just not enough for me… this doesn’t sound like what a filter should sound like… I’ll try that suggestion when I get home tonight from work remember I’m in Florida us so my time difference is less than yours. I believe you’re 5 hours ahead of me LOL. But I’ll try and connect two of those filters and see if I can achieve similar results. But I didn’t want to have to go into both filters and adjust one and then go to another filter and adjust the other but I think I see what you’re saying I’ll try that tonight when I get home but please see the video link and please let me know if you think it’s possible to achieve that sort of sound using the sequencer the sampler the envelope generator the filter and the output. I tried to use the best example picking the svf filter so I hope that video would suffice

#24

yes, its an example of an SVF… there’s more than one design… and as I said, also different slopes (12/24/48 db) even for one design… also some use additional drive circuits.

then when we move to the world of digital, we have another dimension…
circuit modelled filters (aka analog modelling) (*) and digital designs (coming from the theoretical maths)

my point though is simple, there is no ‘normal’ filter behaviour , they all differ.
hell, this is why people buy multiple filters in eurorack, or people prefer one synth over another… they want different designs.
(we don’t all want screaming acid filters - thanks )

so the SVF is not ‘wrong’ it’s just not the behaviour you are expecting.

( I should point out, I don’t have access to the SVF module code, so I cannot say how it is implemented on the SSP e.g. what model it uses… you’d have to ask Bert that)

what really this shows is we could do with more filter types on the SSP, and that statement Id wholeheartedly agree with !

an SVF is not going to cover all filter requirements, in the same way as a classic oscillator is not the only sound source we need :wink:

but for now its what we have , so I can only suggest what you can try.

(*) circuit modelled filters are ‘expensive’ in DSP terms, so less common on something like the SSP… since you don’t necessarily want do spend most of your DSP ‘budget’ on just one filter :wink:

there is another angle to this too…
think about your sound generator getting a bit more involved…

two random thoughts… (Im sure I could think of more if I try !)

  • WTO
    you might find a wavetable that has a resonant character too it. (or you can create your own !)

  • PLTS (my vst)
    see plaits manual
    it has quite a few different oscillator types that may give you a kind of sound you are interested in.

tip: remember for both of this, modulation is important !
(PLTS has a built in modulator, which is useful , but don’t forget to useful external modulation sources like envs/lfo/s&h)

also think multiple oscillators, e.g. some filtered resonant noise might give you some more grit.

of course, this doesn’t replace filters in any way … e.g. if you have samples, then you can only add more with a filter
(or I guess, creates multiple samples with resonance recorded, and then use them as a wavetable)

for me, thats the thing about sound design, esp. in modular, I desperately try to move away from the classic osc->filter->vca/env model … Ive synths that can already do that… and rather look at what I have available, and see where it can lead me thats new.

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#25

hmmm,that’s an excellent response…i see your point…i never thought of it that way…Good scenerio…

if i want a traditional classic synth, then why not just get a desktop like a Behringer Crave or Moog Mother 32…,i could look at it that way…With that theory, it sort of forces me to look at the SSP in a completely different way instead of Duplicating or Emulating the physical world…It’s like a human trying to go to heaven and trying to emulate what they do up there…So i’ll stick to the Digital way for now and focus on a different type of journey…

But even still,this is still a minor setback in my journey on the SSP…The Delay, LFO & Filter i now have to try and find out a better way to utilize it’s fuctions cause i’m so used to how the physical eurorack versions operate…,maybe until i get used to these Digital modules and the concept of how they operator, then i’ll start to use in a different way…
it’s just a little confusing because the Ornament & Crime has a Envelope and it’s near perfect from what you would expect from a Env Generator and graphically appropriate too.

Maybe i’ll even do a video this weekend explaining all this…i will do a video on like my thoughts on the SSP after owning it 1 week…of course i’ll still have some Creative Tunes mixed in the Video…i always do that…i talk for 2 to 4 minutes and the rest is Drone Sci-Fi Modulation…

ok thanks for that…that certainly helped…

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#26

oh, I totally understand where you are coming from …

first I have to say… this idea of using modular differently , I learnt the hard way.
its natural to create what you know… and I did this a LOT, and frankly, I ended up quite disappointed in eurorack generally … as everything I was creating, I could do better on my Virus TI… (and cheaper too!)

… so one day, when I was fed up, I forced myself to sit down and think about the role of modular , what was it supposed to do that was different from everything else? what was its strengths/weaknesses.
and that helped a lot.

but it also made me realise, I need to do this with ALL new gear… figure out its place.
so when I got the SSP, I basically concentrated on finding out what it COULD do, and that would define its role.
(I literally went thru every module, and decided IF/HOW it would be useful !)

and then that as a developer, led me to … “what is missing?” for that role…

so, if you look at the VSTs I have created, they obviously reflect what I felt was ‘missing’ … for ME.

I mean a matrix mixer might not be considered that vital to many users here, but for me switches and matrixes are kind of quintessential modular.
more over, go look at the SWAT algos, and you’ll find things like comparitors !

also whilst creating the VSTs , as there are so many ‘opportunities’ , Ive tried not to overlap with existing SSP modules … so whilst I recognise a Moog ladder filter would be great, its not (so far) had the priority of things which just don’t exist at all.

of course, the other issue is… there are probably as many requests for modules as there are SSP users, each from their point of view is the most important - such is the life of a software developer!

anyway the good news, is after a bit of a break, I’m back into SSP development… so new modules will be on their way.

there was also a bit of a complication for vsts releases… we found there was an issue where each VSTs you had installed on the SSP, consume a lot of memory even if you weren’t using it!
so the more vsts I released the bigger the issue, if users just install them all, which is a natural thing to do!.

but as Bert mentioned in his update post , there is a new update in the works - and this should fix that issue.

we do NOT have a date for that update (its a lot of work) , but Im now more comfortable that it’ll be resolved, so we can ‘workaround’ for now.

anyway, gotta finish off some SSP dev thats for the mid-term… but then reflect on what vsts I want to release next. (one is already done)…
perhaps have a look for some ‘quick wins’ , to do alongside the more ambitious ones I have started, or have planned.

#27

I just hooked my 0-coast up to my small modular box and wow,i decided to process o-coast audio through the SSP and use all the available apps, Rings, Clouds, Delay,etc…and wow,totally different use and everything is working like clock work now…i think i finally got that sweet spot…

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#28

yeah rings and clouds are phenomenal ! (Emilie is a genius)
don’t forget to modulate them… thats the cool thing about the SSP, we can create as much modulation as we want (tip: shq is designed for random modulation, its normalled to a noise source)

also, checkout plaits if you haven’t already … thats has some lovely sounds too

finally, GRA, this is a great module but you really need to experiment with it, to find its sweet spots.
keep the grain dur, and number small initially… if as you increase them it goes quiet, back off. (*)
once you’ve understood that, you’ll stop getting the ‘silence’ thats frustrating initially.
from there… the worlds of granular is awesome…

the thing I love to do most, is modulate start pos - theres so many possibilities.
e.g. get the settings/modulation ‘just right’ , and you can make GRA become a live delay.
(by using start pos to ‘chase’ the recording head )

Ive lost many happy hours to GRA :wink:

(of course, I’ll say, Clouds can do many similar things, but its quite a different beast)

(*) more active grains = more cpu…
a grain uses cpu which is active, i.e. for its grain dur…

grain number just limits the number of grains… almost like a polyphony voice count.
its use is mainly about when you are triggering a lot of very small grains, and the density of the sound just makes it too much…
( I think its range is WAY too high… you cannot really generate the number of grains its suggests … nor would you need to really)

the ‘issue’ is if you go about cpu load, you’ll just get silence … so can be a bit frustrating at first.

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#29

Okay I will go ahead and try that in a few minutes this GRA module. Now my processing audio through the 0-coast but I didn’t realize that while I’m processing audio I can start another sequence and load an internal sampler and have a drum Loop and clock it with the external audio sequencer and then after that I can run another whatever and keep going all the way to the end ( 16 ), and continue to create myself a super patch… I guess that’s where the power of the SSP comes in

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#30

I’m excited about these news! Kudos to you all for all this work and to see the SSP is still growing.
Ever since I mentioned the vsts issue in the SSP, I’ve made different SD cards with different set of vsts on it. Can’t wait for the updates.
The Electra One also helps bring out a more user friendly handle on SSP. I’m so glad I kept with it, and I’ve learnt so much!

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#31

Thanks @Glm1051 … Love this SSP…I’m gonna experience with something when i get home tonight…is it possible to load 3 delays and have 3 LFO modulating those Delays while i have the internal Seq sequencing the LFO in Audio rate??

#32

in case your planning on modulating delays… which is indeed a LOT of fun.

be warned the percussa delay modules reset if you modulate time

but the delay I have in SWAT does not :wink:

generally, I find modulating delays are best modulated subtly - if you’re after than nice tape warmly effect…I think we had a post about this on the forum at some point.

if you start modulating too fast, you are essentially going to get noise… since if you imagine is a loop, the tape read and write heads will start, pretty much randomly picking up and recording data… and the waves won’t be continuous … hence noise.
of course like all chaotic circuits… mostly its noise - but with the right input, and a bit (or alot) of luck with timing, you may get some weird rhythmic bits, but it might take a long while to find such sweet spots in the noise!

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