Granular linear play

[tiger001]

Description of feature (short and simple): GrDur @ max value (200) should play at least a fair amount of the sample

How will this feature improve the workflow or experience for all SSP users (keep it short and focused): now only a short snippet of the sample is playing, even at high GrDur values - when trigged slow(er), we should hear at least a fair amount of the sample, if even possibly to the next trig

or a release/decay value so we can control this (more) ?
or extend the GrDur max value?

[Mark]

Agreed. I’ve thought numerous times it would be helpful to have a longer max value for Grain Duration. I recognize that might mean less simultaneous grains before stressing the processor, but usually when I have longer grains I turn the density down anyway. Maybe a second or two of grain duration?

[bert]

Description of feature (short and simple): GrDur @ max value (200) should play at least a fair amount of the sample

GrDur is the grain duration, in milliseconds. By definition granular synthesis is about overlaying a lot of very small snippets of sounds, so what you are asking for is not in line with granular synthesis IMHO unless you mean by fair amount 100 milliseconds more… I’m guessing you are thinking in seconds. The granular module is not a sample playback module. That is what the sampler is for.

[tiger001]

i don’t know if it is possible @bert but please let us decide what is a good definition of granular synthesis and what it should/could be used for

i like the GRA module since it has so many parameters that can be modulated + you get a really nice sound triggering snippets of sound

[bert]

i don’t know if it is possible @bert but please let us decide what is a good definition of granular synthesis and what it should/could be used for

we’ve now done a ton of work on the granular module and it does things no other granular module does (for example, the realtime modulation of grain shape and the ability to load your own windows, which was suggested by users and later implemented).

If there are specific bugs or problems I’m happy to address them but at the same time I cannot agree to every request, otherwise I’d never get around to addressing the ones that were submitted earlier.

[Mark]

As a user I’m somewhat disappointed to see the increasing reluctance and resistance to user requests. I understood that you can’t promise everything and certainly give firm timelines, but in this case many granular synthesis programs have larger max grain duration windows, and that’s a completely valid request. And no, the sample player really can’t replace that…

Having said that I know as an SSP owner that many of the other modules aren’t as fully developed as the Granular module and need work. As a community we need to understand it’ll take time for the SSP to achieve a degree of software maturity compared to the ER-301, but as a developer it’d be good for the community to see you show willingness to get there.

Hopefully this comes across as positive encouragement, as that’s how I intended it.

[bert]

As a community we need to understand it’ll take time for the SSP to achieve a degree of software maturity compared to the ER-301, but as a developer it’d good for the community to see you show willingness to get there.

So when will the ER-301 offer all the features the SSP currently offers? The SSP offers a feature set much larger than the ER-301.

I’d add to this that the SSP achieved maturity much faster and that the pace at which updates were posted has been much higher.

many granular synthesis programs have larger max grain duration windows, and that’s a completely valid request. And no, the sample player really can’t replace that…

Every granular implementation is different and offers different features. I understand that some other implementations might offer features that are not in our granular module (yet), but I think the reverse is more than true as well.

I’m still happy to consider requests and accomodate them, time and funds permitting. When I work on the granular module next time I’ll look at what has been requested and what I can realistically do.

[Mark]

Agreed, the ER 310 and the SSP are two different animals, I was using that comparison because unlike analog or simple digital, both units software will naturally expand over time, mature further, and provide additional capabilities. That’s in my mind really a selling point for this type of unit.

Also appreciate

I’m still happy to consider requests and accomodate them, time and funds permitting. When I work on the granular module next time I’ll look at what has been requested and what I can realistically do

Couldn’t ask for more, thx!

Oh, BTW, the granular module is my favorite and while I could see a few more features added over time, it is indeed pretty top-notch.

[Goofaman]

@tiger001 and @Mark - with respect and IMHO, the only “reluctance and resistance” I’m reading here is in response to the WhatAbout-ism-ness of statements like “product X does it”.

No single product will ever do it all, which is exactly why I have both Macs and PCs, oscillators from probably five different companies, and why I consider my SSP a complement to my 301, not a replacement. Being a lover of granular, I’ll always keep my Clouds AND Nebulae2 regardless of what enhancements come to the SSP in the future.

I think, after this forum and the SSP have been in the wild as long as the 301 has now been, it’ll be easier for the Devs to see a clear consensus of what enhancements will benefit the most users, and allocate precious time and resources accordingly. Remember, both products are designed, released and maintained by one or two people, each.

I’m not talking about bugs, BTW. I’m talking about Feature Requests and Changes. Also, I’ve found it’s good to keep in mind that many many many reported “bugs” are not fatal-flaws or showstoppers; they are often just a differing opinion on how a very specific aspect of the module behaves, or might behave in another, and often very specific context. I have not seen any resistance or reluctance to fix bonafide Bugs on the SSP.

I want to shout out to @bert and @celine (and Brian of OD) for personally monitoring and responding to their forum members and users!! I love my Teenage Engineering stuff, but their forum is not a place to have a conversation with the Devs. I think the biggest difference I see between the Percussa and OD forums is that the 301 users have had a few more years to get to know their instrument, and they seem to jump in and help each other out more; my perception is that Brian can therefore focus more on “showstopper bugs” on the unstable version of the next release. There’s nothing holding the Percussa forum back, IMHO; it’s just not as active yet.

Any professional composer reading this likely knows how toxic it can be to read forum/YouTube/whatever Comments on their work; in fact, it’s generally considered somewhat masochistic. I suggest we all remember when posting ANYTHING here that the venerable Golden Rule will go a long way to getting our valuable opinions and wishes read and considered reasonably in shaping the future of the SSP.

Unfortunately, sometimes anger and/or frustration or snark does seep into Feature Requests and Bug Reports, and I can only imagine that this overshadows the request itself, and worse: I fear it could drive our very human developers to go the route of some other (mostly big to huge) companies who don’t maintain a direct dialogue with their users.

Of course I’ve likely offended some, but I really don’t mean to! I just disagree that Percussa is reluctant or resistant to its users. I believe they are a tiny company with an awesomely BIG product, and one of its best features is that WE are encouraged to participate. But consider that some days even a dozen posts from three or four users, without other users jumping in where we can is probably like drinking from a fire hose for them!!

GM

Edit: @Mark I totally agree with the post you just made while I was writing my “book”, LOL! TY!

[tiger001]

well i’m not talking product X but the SSP here

fact is that in the last +2 months everytime i had a session with the SSP there was a showstopper which is killing my willingness to use it / my creativity

all these ‘bugs’ were uses of modules that have a logic that no other module/musical instrument employs, so forces you to think different, or forces you to not use ‘standard’ (advertised) functionality

not really a problem there, we all like our daily challenge (which forces you to think out of the box, hehe) but that used logic is sometimes not musical/instrumental and worse, even offsetting

so asking/suggesting for a more tailored approach and then being sent with a clod in the reed, or with the culprit ‘it is logic, how it’s set up’, mmmm

[Goofaman]

@tiger001 Fair enough-- And I’m sure everyone reading this thread would jump in and try to help you if they can.

By “showstoppers” I meant situations where the unit crashes without remedy and/or loses your patch(es); I did not mean situations where a patching idea isn’t panning out or becomes frustrating to solve.

For example-- every time I launch a music notation program, I become hopelessly frustrated and my creativity gets killed. But that doesn’t mean that hundreds of other professionals aren’t successfully making a living using them. So I’ve come to know that I’m just not wired to get along well with the current (and past) generations of notation software

When those kinds of frustrations crop up, and they are impedeing actual work, I suggest always contacting the Dev directly if possible, through email, or whatever more direct and private portal is available. Then converse with them as if they were standing face to face! That always pushes the tone of my writing to a more constructive place, where my frustrations won’t overshadow my actual questions.

Just because we put asterisks into words like “f**ked” doesn’t take away the negative baggage they bring into a Community like this one. No Developer wants to have to wear flameproof underwear every time they log in to see what they can do to continue enhancing their product-- too much of that will cause any human being to turn their attention to more pleasant endeavors.

[tiger001]

exactly what i was experiencing too @Goofaman

this is the features & ID section of the forum…

(i posted here because i wanted to know if this was user error or this was something other users experienced too, or not designed as)

[Goofaman]

exactly what i was experiencing too

I cannot tell what part you’re referring to, or if you understand what’s been said here, but I guess time will tell.