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Encoder doesn't work properly anymore

SSP Bugs
#1

Bug description (state clearly and simply):

Encoder doesn’t work as it is supposed to. It doesn’t register subtle and soft movements, and when it registers movements, it jumps in any direction, and it skips values.

Please watch this video to understand better:

Steps to reproduce (use numbered list):

Watch my video and compare it to your own Percussa.

Software version (blank if unknown):

Update from 20.01.2020

Type (major or minor):

Major. It compromises the workflow. Selecting modules in the network grid, selecting samples, adjusting parameter values. It takes much more time with this behaviour. In the studio, I can somewhat live with this, but in a live situation, my Percussa has now become unusable. You cannot trust it anymore.

Now, is this a hardware problem? Or can it be fixed by update? What are the possibilities to get the Percussa repaired?

Are my encoders broken?
#2

Note:

That one encoder also feels different than the other three when turning it.
It feels like there is more friction when I turn it, compared to the other encoders that feel more smooth.

So, what if it’s dust? Well, I always cover my gear when I go to bed, and why should one encoder collect more dust than others?

Could it be that this encoder touches the metal that is built around it?

#3

oh… I’ve never seen anything like this before. I hope this problem will be solved soon.

#4

Yeah. I have a feeling it can only be solved by replacing the encoder. Because when I first got the SSP 6 months ago, this wasn’t happening.

#5

Did you contact the dev team via: https://www.percussa.com/contact/

#6

Not yet, but I’ll take this post down and contact them personally because I think I might be alone with this bug.

Its probably a matter of how to replace the encoder and what the best way forward is.

I think in my local synth store, Schneidersladen, they might be able to replace it.

Thanks for the tip!

#7

I think that you should leave it up and report back as to how you got it fixed/serviced and what the issue ended up being. Also, did you try reflashing/reinstalling the firmware?
That’s probably not the issue, but is free to try.

1 Like
#8

are you saying that the FW will address each encoder differently ?

#9

I didn’t reinstall the firmware yet (you mean to just reinstall the latest update, I assume?), but I removed the “metal case” of that glitchy encoder.

It is NOT the metal case (the beautiful, chrome coloured knob) that doesn’t move the encoder correctly. It is indeed the encoder itself. When I move it without the case, it also responds in that sluggish way.

I’ve read that sometimes, these encoders (you can buy them for about 1 - 5 dollars) oxidate, or lets say the connection to the circuit board oxidates. That causes the encoders to malfunction. It happens to all kinds of gear.

I’ll try to install some older firmwares later today and post the answers. For now, I’m quite certain that I will have to replace that encoder. But to do that, I’d need to remove a lot of parts of the Percussa and I’m not good with electronics, so I see no other way than to contact the Percussa team directly and ask for help.

For now I will live with this malfunction, it’s okay for studio use but as mentioned, for Live use of the percussa, this is a dealbreaker.

#10

If it’s physically feeling different than the others, this doesn’t sound like a bug… sounds like a hardware issue.

#11

Just replied to your email so we can get this sorted out.

#12

Mine does this too, especially with the LFO, Filter & ADSR,Modules These Modules are where the parameters go up & Down. When it comes to modules like Clouds, or Delay where it travels left to right and adjust mostly letters & Numbers, it’s not as bad…but traveling up & Down especially on the LFO, it’s terrible…Is there a fix to this?

#13

Do you also notice bad encoder behavior when you select modules, select presets or in and output destinations of modules?

Try to determine which of your encoders has the problems.
The only fix that helped me was to replace the encoders entirely. You should ask Bert about this, he’s sent me the encoders and an instruction of how to replace them.

I’m bad at soldering and fixing gear, so I brought it to a store where they fix eurorack modules.
That did solve my encoder problem.

However, it is extremely frustrating. Just 1 year later and one of my 4 encoders starts to behave oddly again. Dialing downwards makes it jump in all directions. I have to turn it really slowly to prevent it from doing that.

My number one fix is to control the SSP from my macbook, with bitwig or ableton. Then you basically set all the in and outputs, and you dont need the encoders for that anymore.

But yes, its frustrating. I wonder if I was too rough with the encoders, but since the repair I’ve been really careful, and it is buggy again…

#14

Mine is pretty new even tho i got it used and it’s been like that since day one and yes, i did notice that when choosing a module. The 2nd & 3rd encoder really jumps…i make sure i paid attention to the 1st encoder which was silky smooth in all modules and all screens…it’s the 2nd & 3rd encoders…i’m wondering tho @Evoken ,is there another way to fix instead or ordering new encoders? i have no idea how to replace them…does it involve Soldering? i do have a friend who works on Jukeboxes old school and he solders all day long but i’m afraid to have someone work on my expensive module unless it’s a store i bought it from…i guess i could take it to High Energy Electronics where i live but wow,i’m gonna probably invest few $$$ dollars now and like you said, the problem came back soon after that? oh boyyy,what i get myself into…hmmm…

This was August of 2018…i’m sure the guy i got if from updated to a newer firmware because i just got mine few weeks ago.

i also have to see if i have firmware newer then this one since i did see a few in this behavior, but this thread looks like a few years back…i’m sure my firmware is newer then this…

1 Like
#15

you’d need to contact Percussa if theres a hardware issue,
as you say its a v. expensive module to take a soldering iron too!

unfortunately Ive had problems with encoders on other gear too, I’ve a suspicion dust gets inside, and so disrupts the pulses that are sent as you turn. (*)
doxit to lubricants/cleaners, but I found they didn’t make any real difference.

(*) technically encoders send a different pulse pattern for turn clockwise/anti-clockwise, one issue here is even one pulse missed, can make it look like its turning the opposite way!
unfortunately this is why they feel more glitching that a potentiometer.

sometime what Ive found helps is turning the encoder lots, back n’ forth, again my theory is it dislodges dust… but I don’t know for sure.

could it be fixed in software?
this is a good question… something I’ve meant to look into in my vst.
I think potentially it could be improve , we could see these ‘false’ reading as ‘noise’.
so if we filter the output of the encoders, this might help reduce that noise.

BUT I’d need to experiment with this…
the trick is we need a high enough SNR, to ensure the encoders still feel responsive.

I will say, Ive a strong suspicion that other modules/music gear does have this filtering going on…
interestingly, monome norms also had early reports of jittery encoders, and Ive seen they introduced software filtering to help this.

so, I think it’s a combination…
I think we could have better filtering of encoder signals in software to avoid inevitable noise.
BUT a very bad/faulty encoder with generate too much noise, so filtering will be less effective.

importantly, without experimentation, I do not now where that ‘cutoff’ point is… between this fairly ‘normal’ noise and excessive.

sidenote: my VST implementation vs rest of UI
the ssp-sdk said the encoder values are passed ‘raw’ to me, so I read that as no velocity encoding or filtering. when testing I found I didn’t really need either, so I did not implement.
… so what you see in my vsts (afaik) is raw data.
hence, my ‘hope’ that filtering could improve. (its amazing what a HPF can achieve !)

I do not know what /if any filtering is used by the rest of the ssp modules or ui.
but my experience is it seems similar to behaviour on my vsts.

#16

I have the same problem from a couple of days.
SH*T :confounded:
As everybody said it’s really really frustrating, I’m sure it’s something physical since I have SSP from a couple of months and the issue started two days ago, only on the first encoder.
It’s really impossible to work like this, have a look at the video… I’m quite sure I’ve to replace the encoder since I tried all the things I could, like using air (also if there were no dust), and flashing another microSD with the last image and SYNTHOR to see if the one I was used was broken. But nothing changed.
Link video
I’m going to send an email to @bert asking how to proceed. Fortunately I’ve a friend who repair pedals but also eurorack, he already fixed my WMD performance mixer, so I really hope it will be something quite easy - analog not digital - to repair.

2 Likes
#17

i already spoke to Bert & he is nice enough to send me some new encoders. i sent him a Video of mine skipping…I have a place in my local neighborhood. Electronics Repair shop that works on music gear and they said $75 to put them in as long as i supply the parts…so hopefully this will work. The Waldorf Blofeld had similar issues…Similar knobs and freestyle movement. i will document my getting encoders in mail, taking it to shop and then finally testing them out…i’m going to do a Ytube Video specifically on this so it can be a reference for us all

1 Like
#18

i did get mine used so i’m not sure how much use it got before i got mine…lol

#19

so as discussed above… Im currently experimenting with a ‘filtering algorithm’ to see if it helps.

my initial impression is (pretty much as I expected above) that it can help quite a lot, assume the noise being generated is not too much.
my observations so far, is the issue is more pronounced when encoders are turned quickly.

I still fiddling a bit with the details, as its a balancing act of getting the right feel and response vs clamping down on errant values.
the other ‘issue’ is I can only judge based on MY experiences, and my encoder (1) is only skipping slightly/occasionally… .so it may be its not enough for others with more severe issues.

so current plan is:
Im updating/testing CLDS with this behaviour.

if someone is getting this issue with encoders, please go test CLDS (as it is currently) , and look for skipping in values (*) … so you can get familiar with how it’s behaving as is, and how ‘bad’ it feels (is it alot, a little , only when moving really fast?

(*) you should see the little parameter bars skip around… whereas on a ‘smoother’ encoder, they should move very smoothly, not skipping counter to rotation at all.

IF you are able to SEE this, then let me know, and I’ll give you a ‘test’ version to see if it improves things.
BUT I need you to be observant… it might solve 100%, or it might just improve it, make it acceptable … or not really do anything.(*)

IF this works, I will talk to Bert about using a similar strategy for filtering throughout synthor. but I will need feedback first.

(*) the issue here, is I cannot filter too severely as it will degrade performance of ‘working’ encoders, so the goal here is to only ‘fix’ encoders that have ‘some’ noise.

EDIT: ok, Ive a test CLDS for anyone that would like to test out this filtering…
for me its working (surprisingly) well…

2 Likes
#20

i’m not sure what that CLDS does…i’m still new to this and my 3 encoders are skipping like crazy…1st one seems to be ok. Bert already said he’s send me new encoders in the mail but i would still like to try your approach @thetechnobear …Please walk me through this so i can correct…what’s the 1st thing i need to do. i hate to see you type all over again but i’m not understanding your last post on how to resolve skipping with encoders…