Are Core OS + User Experience ‘feature complete’?

wow, I really can’t even begin to think where to start on this topic…

unfortunately, I have to be honest my overriding feeling was one of …
ouch, I can understand how and why some are frustrated,
but can you imagine Percussa reading this? how de-motivating do you think this would be?
frankly even I find it de-motivating.

I use the SSP, pretty much everyday, and I guess Id consider myself somewhat of a ‘power user’ as I use pretty much all the modules - so, I fully appreciate there are limitations.

  • sure, the looper is ‘missing’ but there are plenty of other modules … the VST module alone, has meant you have 12 (?) modules that were not promised for Kickstarter and more to come. Similarly the USB Audio capabilities are much better than were promised.
  • the UI is not as sleek as it might be, could have some usability tweaks (filter IO please!) - but it functions, I use it all the time, and enjoy it … and the scope/ scale&offset functions are SO useful.
  • modules have limitations (mine too) , but there are a good variety , which with tweaking have some nice sweet spots… Im also not too concerned about this as VSTs can fill these gaps.
  • midi I find a bit unreliable , it works… but I have the odd issue, but you have a lot of cv io! I find midi fine for automation (hence my recent vst updates)

but all said n’ done… I use regularly, even if there are quirks, I just workaround, or do something different - just like I do with many other modules.

updates - we have seen some very useful updates last year.
the sorting out of physical CV scaling/offset has made thing SO much better for me.
similarly the VST changes opened up new possibilities for my developments.

given these changes happened, I see no evidence that support has stopped.
my own experience is development can happen in fits n’ starts… some changes take longer and have unintended consequences… that’s just a dev’s life.

@BENDY and @Evoken posts pretty much match my experience.
as I tried to show in my recent video, I use my SSP as part of a system.
so its substantial physical IO and USB audio IO is something I cannot do without now.

I use it both as a sound source (usually driven USTA so that I have hands-on control) and for sound processing (granular, reverb, delays mainly) … I also love that fact we have internal modulation, so we leaving us more IO for other things like audio in, cv/gates
(see my video for more details)

so for me, it very much warrants its price and hp…
I think this topic just demonstrates for many of us the SSP is invaluable.
but for others, its not meeting their use-case/expectations, and perhaps its time to move on… after all, only keep things that make you happy.
its just life that some products fit some peoples needs more than others.

anyway, apart from this topic,
I actually feel pretty confident about the future and Ive got some interesting plans for the future.

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Happy costumer here… central part of my system… it’s not perfect, but hey what is…

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SSP is not perfect and to be honest, I’d like to see the developers put a little more effort into fixing bugs.
But even so, I don’t think I’ll let SSP go for the moment because there is no other flexible sampler module that can do what SSP does.
I had not started eurorack if there is no SSP.

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Maybe what everyone needs is some clarity on the situation from Bert… can we expect further development or is it as it is!

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The SSP, like the Droid or the 301 is capable of doing so many things… but I totally can feel your frustration. As deep as it the module is, it’s not exactly intuitive to use and - and that’s my main pain point - it requires a totally different workflow from the modules that surround it. You really have to plan ahead if you want to use it in a patch… and that’s not something everyone wants.

@inside_left please carefully read and respect the forum rules - New forum rules (read this before posting) - and refrain from personal attacks and the spreading of misinformation. I have merged your thread into this one as it’s a duplicate thread discussing the same topic.

We have not “moved on” to something else, and have since the SSP was originally launched, posted many updates and bugfixes, including features that were originally unplanned and which were requested by users. We even posted updates during the pandemic (!).

We do not reply to every topic in the forum, to give other people a chance to participate and answer questions and develop community, and to allow us to focus on software development, which is what’s most important. If we are here all the time, we can’t write software.

If you have not been able to use the SSP, you can post your questions here in the forum and get the help you need. There is already plenty of info you can learn from, including how to use the patching system, and several people have made videos of the SSP showing you how to use it.

If you do not like the way it works, or don’t like the patching system, or it’s simply not for you, you always have the option of selling yours. There is no need to go on a rant here in the forum and create a negative atmosphere for other users.

You can save patches using the Global page (G), the button to save a patch is right there at the first page. I do not know what you mean by “organize”. The patches are all in the list on that page, and you just use the first encoder to select/load your patch.

Regarding the patching system - it was designed such that you first enable inputs and outputs of a module, then patch the modules together, rather than patching each individual connection. This way, if you reconnect a module to another module of the same type, patch connections are re-created AUTOMATICALLY, which saves you time. The SSP has a button interface, and creating connections one by one using buttons would just take more time. This topic has also been discussed before here and possibly several other threads.


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I have pointed you to the forum rules before, so please read and respect them - New forum rules (read this before posting)

I do not remember ridiculing anyone. I would like to remind you that the sequencer was extended a while ago with many features, as a result of your requests, but you seem to have forgotten that. I also remember that you were not happy with the weeks of development this took even though I gave you priority over other requests in the forum which were just as valid. See this post for the update - Update 25082019 [New VCA/Mixer; New step sequencer; New MIDI sync features; various fixes and optimizations]

You might be aware we are in a pandemic. Also, read my development update - Development update [Sep 2021]

The bugs that were fixed in the updates you refer to were introduced because of features we implemented earlier, requested by users.

We have delivered a lot more than what was promised in the kickstarter, so stop spreading misinformation. The looper has been delayed because of other features which were requested (such as the mutichannel audio I/O, as well as features you requested, see above).

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I posted an update here about ongoing work - Development update [Sep 2021]

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I think what gpaulino is getting at is not being able to move/sort/categorize patches without fiddling with the SD card on the computer. That’s my guess.

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I’ve a cunning idea for this which will I hope will be possible with the new image mentioned in the recent development update.

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You’re correct Neil.

Look… I don’t believe anyone here wants to hurt someone else’s feelings. We’re just frustrated with a few things that could be different. And I don’t think anyone was disrespectful. If there was nothing that could be done about those things, then it would be bad criticism, but the fact is something can be done, the platform is powerful enough and it seems to me it’s just a matter of facing it from a different perspective. So… if I did hit a wrong note, I apologize, it was not my intention.

Constructive Proposition

I offered to pay for major OS updates, because I think it might fair in this case. If @bert philosophy is not to charge and make gradual improvements on what’s been developed so far, that’s ok. It’s his business. But if he wants to charge for major overhauls, perhaps even an alternative system (and updates) for a fee (so those who do not want to pay, do not have to migrate), I believe a lot of people would happy to pay (I would obviously), Percussa would generate a new recurring revenue stream and he might even sell more SSPs because it will be more user friendly. It seems to me like a win win proposition and I honestly do not see any downsides to this.

I really hope this is seriously considered.

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First of all I’d like to thank Bert for giving us the recent update - this sounds really exciting and clearly dispels any issue regarding abandonment of the SSP. Hoorah!

I recently had to ‘chicken sit’ for my daughter in the middle of Wales (it’s like cat sitting but it’s chickens). She apologized in advance as there was little or no internet. 8 days we were going to be there! But I had a plan. I took my Doepher LC9 case with a string of modules, the main one being the SSP. It gave me an excellent opportunity to sit down and work with the SSP over an extended period - something I had not really done before. I had really great time - I probably spent well over 30 hours with it in a short space of time and I can honestly say it transformed my thoughts about the SSP from some (only some) of the downside thoughts expressed here, into one of really beginning to understand the power and concept of this module. Gone were issues about patching - I was flying around patching, connecting, testing and you know when you’ve kind of got it - when you begin to design things in your head and start building those things - magic! I now actually like the way you construct things - a bit like lego - it’s very logical and it became fun. I kept an A4 pad near by as I recorded each preset / patch and built up my knowledge of the ins/outs - this is really helpful and I recommend it.

It’s a BIG (physically, mentally, conceptually, powerful) module and has a learning curve - for me I just needed to spend a decent amount of time with it - and I love it :grinning:

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I feel this pain, recently I even made a similar post talking about my inability to really “get” the UI. Since making that post, at the encouragement of many users on here I decided to give the module another 6 months to see if I could overcome the learning curve. I’m happy to report I have! it did not come easily, it took a lot of hours of just patching, deleting all existing presets, and building my knowledge base from scratch, But in the end, this module went from one I dreaded having to use to one of the backbones of my system (and I’m not lacking for DSP modules)

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err… do you remember what the original thread title was (before it was moved here)?
apologies, but that was not ‘constructive criticism’, in fact the OP (by inside_left) , had pretty much zero comment on what the ‘issue’ was rather just a rant of frustration.

we need to make this a place which is fun, motivating and inspiring to come back too.
a place where the community can inspire each other, find ways to make what we have work.

Ive been happy to talk about shortcomings and ways we can workaround them in a constructive way on this forum , and I talk to Bert (directly) if I see something that is a bug, Id encourage others to do the same.

this is a common problem I see on many music tech forums, many see them as their way to communicate with developers, and to try to build support of their ideas , and hopefully gain dev priority, and then it escalates between users , with increasingly more posts about ‘must haves’ , ’ I cannot believe …’
frankly, its to try to create pressure on developers…who unsurprisingly, end up leaving the forums…so ALL users lose out on that close contact :frowning:

for developers these are community forums, they usually were not really setup for support but rather as a way to foster a community that can help and inspire each other, and this needs a positive spirit and environment.

(id say the updated forums rules , were updated to help promote this more positive vibe)

at the end of the day, thats why Im here - too contribute, too help, too share…


ending on a more positive note,
Im really happy that both @Riggar and @DSPaddict found that sitting down with the SSP really transformed their experiences with the SSP.

I know its easy to sit here and say ‘invest more time’ , but unfortunately for complex systems, that often is the case …

I went to Superbooth last week, and went around so many booths, and played with module racks that were pre-patched with new modules. it was really hard to adjust these (or fix when someone had broken it) , even though Im experienced in eurorack patching… because you have to start tracing things through, and try to understand WHY someone put it together like this…

thats why I repeatedly say here…
the first step is delete the presets, and start building from scratch, simple patches at first.
repetition will soon make it second nature, and you’ll slowly get to know what each module can (and cannot) do… leave preconceptions at the door, and you will have a blast :slight_smile:

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if i hadn’t been in some way intentionaly provocative, as i was extremely angry at having, in my opinion, ‘wasted’ two grand i really couldn’t afford to waste i dont believe you would have responded at all. there was no personal attack intended anywhere, just speculation regarding an article i read saying percussa are working on a new, ‘high end’ wavetable synth module which, again angered me considering the state of this machine at present. still, by that point, not even telling us here whether you will even update it at all for months at a time and then taking personal offence via the forum to people who are simply upset or angry after spending TWO GRAND on a machine that isn’t doing what they thought it would in the way they thought, or whatever their gripe and arent massively into being told its their fault felt unusual as a method of customer support especially when compared to the content and oputput/dialogue on other similar forums for similar(ish) modules, the only other ones i own, XOR, Sequentix, Orhtogonal Devices (places i rely on more or less daily either for updates and tips or general chat) this forum feels like, for the most part, a bunch of users screaming into the void and asking quesituons that up untill recently didnt get answered. and certainly does not feel like a portal for comunication with the devs. As it became apparent that there isnt much activity the only reason i began to check was to see if there’d been an update, which even that i eventually stopped doing. If i’m totally honest, there’s a good chance i would have persisted with this module despite the flaws if it was in any way apparent though the forum that it was still being actively developed but there simply isn’t. and its still a relatively new module. two grand really is a pretty unique price point in eurorack and i dont think im alone in assuming that would mean a higher degree of support than you may expect from, say a 200 quid module. The price is and in my opinion, should be factored into expectations. Finally, the idea that the personal feelings of people who i have no tangible proof (at initial time of writing) are still working on the thing i am complaining about is bizarre unless im attacking them personally rather than just questioning the aspects their work that effect me and my relationship with my expensive module. honeslty if you dont want criticism dont release a product commercially and certainly not one at the highest point of sale in its class and aimed at a (dear god im sorry im about to use this word) ‘prosumer’ base who may actually be using the module as part of their job. and yes, i do keep mentioning the price because it has been the crucial factor in defining my response and expectations for the module, im not rich enough for it not to be, im not rich at all tbh and my reactions are decided by the 60HP, £2000 module staring at me from my very limited 6u 106hp case as i type this. The reason I havent sold it yet is that i bought it because it was SO perfect in concept for all that i wanted and needed but at present, to me, with my daft adhd, is completely unusable and its heartbreaking really. My idiot brain simply cannot and will not even countenance undoing an entire double-patched patch in order to see if its worth putting a reverb into the chain only to find out that no, it wasnt and then re double-patching it back. its just not going to happen, not regulalry enough for proper usage. whereas on my er-301 i just add one to the chain then delete it again if needed and the 301 is in no way a basic or simple machine so please (this bit is absolutely not to you (bert), its to other users who may read this and feel like replying to tell me that actually they understand it. well done mate good for you, arent you clever, here’s a biscuit.) dont be smug or condescending to us if we are having problems with the interface, which is completely functionally and mechanically different to any other patching interface, as far as ive seen, in existence. for me i do understand the theory of the patching, its just got one too many stages in it and is, again, for me at least, uniquely annoying because of that.
sorry this is a bit (?!) garbled and also fully sorry if you took personal offense but really, how do you think the people who feel two grand worse off and currently unable to use it are feeling? two grand worse off i should expect! is it our fault for being too stupid to understand the machine? because that is how some of the response feels. Hope the GUI update fixes a lot of the most major problems, it feels like just streamlining that and making it a bit more logical could go a long way toward usability, like for example its insane how much just putting the units into catagories streamlined usage of the er-301! but please understand i simply would never have even needed to write the previous post if you just kept us in the loop. having to obsessively check every day to see if somethings been updated without any feedback or meven proof it wil be updated, it turns out, is a finite thing for me. a simple semi-regular dev-log keeping us updated would, for me at least, change my entire outlook on the machine. FINALLY finally finally, i am specifically very sorry for blithely stating something like that this ‘wasnt a labour of love’, shouldny have included that as it would definitely have offended me and i feel bad about it.

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Hi
To be blunt it would appear your argument is quite flawed!
I personally am not sure what you are rambling about. The percussa ssp progress has been excellent- that is until carona virus came along!
What the hell do you mean about it being under developed?
You can conjure just about any form of synthesis from FM all the way to wave table and subtractive synthesis and more and more….
It has taken me about 7 years to grasp some of these concepts yet admittedly I still need to grab a book and learn more about engineering!
A lot of development happened with the quad vca and sampler and I think this was originally vst development if I remember correctly which than became modules (though I am a bit vague).
The release of the new vst’s like the mixer and the mutable instruments justify the cost of the percussa i think. I heard of a user who sold his wmd devices mixer because of the vst that is a saving of several hundred dollars.
I must admit you have me totally confused :man_shrugging::thinking::exclamation:
Do you want some sort of super module or new filter?
Most studio effects cost thousand’s
What development did not happen?
Do you want a new oscillator module?
What do you mean?
Maybe sell me your percussa ssp I will give you halve price :sunglasses:

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I’d say its probably worth letting this all drop…

different users will have different opinions about useful something is, about value for money.
e.g. the er301 is less powerful and flexible (vsts/cpu) but others might find it more useful…
as they say, everyones mileage will vary.

everyone is free to have their opinion and we have to respect views may differ.

I don’t really see much mileage in going thru this endlessly…
I think we should stick to thing we can do something about,
helping each other, sharing knowledge to make the most of what we have.

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The key takeaway from this thread is development is active and under the hood improvements are coming. Improvements may not be on the way to some of the user experience areas many of us would like, but this is more information than the community had at the outset of the post.

We should all remind ourselves that buying into the possibility of an optimal future state is more the fault of the purchaser than the fault of the developer.

Lessons can be learned on both sides though.

Increasing the frequency of developer communication on the board and aligning dev updates to feature upvotes would probably go a long way to bringing the emotional temperature down.

All said, it is undeniable that Percussa SSP is an ambitious and powerful platform. Yes, unlocking that power can be a challenge when connecting modules together takes you out of flow state.

The axiom is always the same-- stay the course if you are getting the value you had hoped for, invest more time if you haven’t given it a fair shake, and move on when a tool carries too much dissonance for you.

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